Q & A with an atheist

Hemant Mehta.

(Editor’s note: Nancy Duke took time to do a question and answer section with Chicago Coalition for Reason member Hemant Mehta following yesterday’s article, “Can you be good without God? Yes?” The coalition is responsible for the “good without God” billboard campaign in Chicago. Mehta is a University of Illinois at Chicago alum and is currently earning a masters degree in math education at Depaul University. He is the chair of Secular Student Alliance Board of Directors.

You can read Mehta’s blog here, Friendly Atheist, which also features the writings of a Christian, humanist and lifelong atheist. Mehta also has a book, “I Sold My Soul on E-bay: Viewing Faith through an Atheist’s Eyes.”

Duke and Mehta discussed several issues, including squabbles between Christians and atheists and a Flying Spaghetti Monster.)

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I'm goin' to the Sizzler!

Nancy Duke: As an atheist, what scares you the most: Having your soul burn for eternity in a fiery lake? Or not being able to receive Christmas presents?
Hemant Mehta: Perhaps the ability to scare away a first date by mentioning the dreaded A-word. Strangely enough, I probably receive more Christmas presents as an atheist than I ever did when I was religious. Those non-religious types have an amusing sense of humor.

Are atheists on Santa's "good" or "bad" list?

ND: How can an atheist celebrate Christmas, the holiday to recognize the birth of Baby Jesus?
HM: It’s also Winter Solstice, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, ChriFSMas, and a variety of other holidays. Take your pick. It’s possible to get in the spirit of giving and receiving and helping others without celebrating a child’s birth in the process.

ND: What is ChriFSMas?
HM: Christmas for the Flying Spaghetti Monster followers.

ND: Are you equating Jesus to a Flying Spaghetti Monster? That doesn’t sound like a “Friendly Atheist.” In fact, it sounds a little mean.
HM: Well, the ChriFSMas thing is just a play on words, but there is a FSM movement where the argument is: There’s as much evidence for a Flying Spaghetti Monster as there is for any other God. So, why not worship the former and not the latter? It’s tongue-in-cheek, but I think it makes a good point. In any case, I think Christmas is a good time for everyone to give presents and spend time with loved ones. It’s not limited to Christians.

The God of Atheism: Flying Spaghetti Monster.

ND: Interesting. Let’s talk about the Chicago Coalition for Reason briefly. Who is involved and what is the message?
HM: The group consists of a number of local non-religious groups of all stripes — meetup groups, a secular Jewish group, a college student group, etc. Our memberships are all pretty different, but what we have in common is that we don’t believe in God. We want Chicagoans who think the same way to just be aware that there are others like us out there. No one should be ashamed of being an atheist and churches have done a good job in stigmatizing us. I should add that the message is not to denigrate religion. We’re reaching out to those who already agree with us.

ND: Do people assume that the campaign is to denigrate religion? Is there a way to promote the views of atheism without putting down Christianity or any other religion?
HM: Absolutely. The billboard says people can be good without God. To some, that means we’re religion bashers. I don’t get it. But if you look at the news articles that our billboard and others like it have generated, Christians not only get offended, they often put up counter-billboards to protest! It’s incredible what gets under their skin. We could’ve put up a billboard that was against religion, but we wanted to put out a positive message that connected with other atheists. The fact that it still generates controversy says more about the people getting offended than us, I think.

ND: True, but I’m sure atheists can get just as fired up about the same thing, whether it’s the free, state-sponsored “In God We Trust” license plates in Indiana or millions of taxpayer dollars in Illinois going to religious organizations via grant money. I’m sure a Christian would think it’s crazy for an atheist to be upset with that.

Corn is to Indiana as Jesus is to...

HM: I think the difference is that the “In God We Trust” license plates are government-issued and a violation of church/state separation. Whereas our billboards are privately funded. I don’t know any atheists groups that go after personally paid for Christian billboards in the same way they go after ours. Atheist groups have certainly never said Christian billboards should not be allowed to go up. We may critique or respond to the messages the billboards say, but we don’t protest them being up there in the first place.

ND: It seems that people get more upset if you deny God as opposed to saying He is real, no?
HM: People do get upset when they hear an atheist say they don’t believe in God. From experience, they seem to think non-belief in a God makes us bad or evil people. I don’t think atheists get upset when someone says they believe in God only because we’re just so used to it. We might not react in a “positive” way if they say they’re religious, but I doubt most of us make a disgusted face when we hear it.

ND: Why did you become an atheist? Were you always one? Or did you convert from some other religion?
MH: I became an atheist when I was 14 after questioning the beliefs I was raised with for the first time. It was scary because at the time I didn’t know anyone who didn’t believe in God. I was previously following Jainism, the religion of my parents.

ND: Was there a particular teaching you questioned or episode that made you start having skepticism about the existence of a God?
HM: The biggest factor was my family moving to another state the week before high school started. I went from having a group of friends to going to a school where I knew nobody. That was rough. I started questioning why God would ever do such a thing, and I questioned other beliefs I was raised with (reincarnation, the notions of heaven/hell). The more I thought about it and the more I researched it, it looked like there was no evidence for any of these ideas. People just passed on the beliefs generation after generation. So after a few weeks of intense soul-searching (pun intended), I lost my faith for good.

One day, these two will have an awkward parent/ child talk on religion.

ND: That’s kind of a bummer of a story. How did your parents take that?
HM: I didn’t tell them for a few years. In college, I started a group for atheists with a friend of mine, and that’s how I began to get involved with the organized atheist community. Eventually, when I began traveling to conferences and going to board meetings for these groups, I told them. By that time, they already had a hunch so it wasn’t a major deal. Today, they’re fine with it. We just don’t talk about religion very much.

ND: Why does it have to be so awkward? Not to bring up the Flying Spaghetti Monster again, but why can’t it be just a discussion of a difference in tastes? Like I like my noodles al dente, and you like your noodles softer.

It's me again!

HM: I agree. It should be like that. Religion should be like politics where we have no problem pointing out the hypocrisy and faults with the other side. But for some reason, society has made it taboo to criticize peoples’ religious beliefs. We’re told to respect religion even when people believe patently absurd ideas (Jesus was born from a virgin mother, there’s some galactic overlord named Xenu, a communion wafer is literally the body of Christ). Out of context, these are things we expect from fiction writers or delusional people. But because they’re cloaked with “religion,” we’re taught to keep our mouths shut about these things.

I think religious beliefs should be open season for criticism. There’s plenty of problems with religion and we should be discussing them everywhere. That’s part of the reason atheists have been putting up billboards and why the publicity has come for books about atheism. For the first time, lots of people are criticizing religion, and we’re not backing down.

ND: One more question and then a few quick hits to wrap it up. You mentioned that after research, you couldn’t find evidence to support any of your previous religious ideas. But isn’t that the point? Isn’t faith supposed to be based in a belief of not needing evidence, not needing proof? It wouldn’t be faith if you needed evidence and facts, because that’s called science. So, why use science or atheism or anything else to debunk religion when religion is based on embracing something you cannot prove, i.e. faith?

Facts are fun! ... Sometimes.

HM: Yes, relying on faith is the opposite of relying on evidence. However, I was always taught my beliefs as if they were facts. I don’t know of any Christian churches that say, “We believe Jesus resurrected after three days but we don’t actually know that for sure.” No, they say it as if it were true and proven and factual.

I discovered at 14 that my beliefs, which I always believed were factual, were just ideas that people of my faith shared and there was no good reason to believe any of it was true. I guess I discovered that my faith was indeed faith. And I decided I wanted to rely on things that were evidence-based and actually factual. That led me to atheism. It doesn’t say that God doesn’t exist, but atheism says that there’s no good evidence for God’s existence, so why bother believing in one. To me, that’s honest.

ND: What is Christianity’s main flaw?
HM: The flaw in Christianity is the same as the flaw in other religions. They base their beliefs on unproven, inaccurate stories from thousands of years ago. They think those stories are based in fact when they are not. I should say that my major problem with Christianity is not their beliefs but rather the insistence that their beliefs ought to be accepted by others: Creationism in the classroom, faith-based initiatives by the government, gay marriage should be forbidden, etc.

ND: What is atheism’s main flaw?
HM: The flaw in atheism? I have issues with the approaches some atheists use to spread their beliefs. I find them rude and disengaging at times, but the underlying message is just honest.

ND: What is the goal of atheism? Is it simply not to believe? Or is there a greater good you and fellow atheists are aiming for?
HM: There’s no ultimate goal of atheism. There may be goals shared by many atheists or atheist organizations, though. We want people to rely on science and not religion. We want people to realize you can be good without a God. We want people to accept that we don’t have all the answers to the big questions in life and not seek out some religious-based mythology in place of it.

God/ Flying Spaghetti Monster bless you!

ND: What would an atheist say to me if I sneezed? Flying Spaghetti Monster bless you?
HM: Gesundheit! Or nothing, which makes it awkward for everyone.

ND: After this conversation, are you less or more afraid of spending eternity in a fiery lake?
HM: I’m not at all afraid of spending eternity in a fiery lake. Because there isn’t one. There’s no heaven either. Let’s just enjoy the life we have since it’s the only one we’re ever going to get.

Can you be good without God? Yes?

Courtesy of the Chicago Coalition of Reason

Staff report

(Chicago, IL)- Allen Lang stood in downtown Chicago the weekend before Halloween watching a protest against a billboard proclaiming, “Are you good without God? Millions are.”

He smiled as he took pictures of the satirical group, Best* Church of God, fight against the billboard’s message crafted by the Chicago Coalition of Reason, which is made up of atheist and humanist groups.

The coalition is promoting the message that nonbelievers can be good people, too.

“I think it’s marvelous,” said Lang, who attends a Unitarian Church in the ciy. “Religion is fascinating. Not questioning it is a mistake.”

But the coalition’s message isn’t sitting too well with some believers, especially Jesus Christ.

“No one is good–except God alone,” He said in Mark 18:10.

And Christ pushes his argument one step further: “All our righteousnesses are like filthy rags,” He said in Isaiah 64:6.

Melqui Chaparro, of Chicago, agreed with Christ.

“It’s ridiculous, because without God, we can’t do anything,” Chaparro, 38, said. “If you don’t believe in Jesus, you can’t be a good person.”

Members from the Best* Church of God protest the billboard in downtown Chicago. (Photo by Nancy Duke Reporting team)

However, Christ contradicts Himself in a few chapters of The Bible. (The book is long, so we’ll forgive Him for a few contradictions here and there.)

In the Second Book of Peter, Christ talks about not wanting the good or the bad to perish.

“The Lord does not want anyone to perish,” He said.

(Christ wasn’t immediately available to comment on the perceived contradictions. A prayer request was sent to Him by the Nancy Duke Reporting team at least one week ago.)

So, who do we believe? The God of wrath and punishment? Or the God of hugs and kisses?

The God of wrath and punishment, according to Shirley Phelps-Roper, member of gay-, soldier- and Jew-bashing Westboro Baptist Church, and the everlasting voice of reason.

“With respect to the lie that ‘people can be good without God’, begin with YIKES!,” Phelps-Roper wrote in an e-mail. “On NO level can people be good without God.”

Phelps-Roper explained more.

“They cannot be good in their conduct and they cannot be good in their circumstances. The Word of God is all over this nation and yet there is no voice to teach the people what the Lord their God requires of them or what his standards are. Woe unto this people, their destruction now is imminent,” Phelps-Roper said.
For Ray Metzgar, 36, God’s imminent destruction isn’t an issue, especially since He doesn’t exist.

“I don’t believe He exists,” Metzgar said.

The Chicago resident has been an atheist since he came out of the closet as a gay man several years ago. He felt completely repressed by the church.

“They told you you’re going to hell. Gays are pedophiles. They’re monsters,” Metzgar said.

Since embracing the belief of not believing, he doesn’t hold fears of eternal damnation anymore.

“There’s no hell. To me, atheists are doing everything out of the kindness of their hearts. It’s not pushed,” Metzgar said.

Just don’t tell that to Phelps-Roper.

“You can blather on about being good without God, but it ain’t happening. God hates this nation and he is going to unleash trauma shortly like has never been seen in this earth – not from the beginning to this very day,” she said.

Yikes! (Photo by Nancy Duke Reporting team)

And definitely don’t tell that to homeless man Anthony Martin, who has been a Christian since miraculously living through a two-year coma induced by five bullets to the head in 1979. He was shot in the head five times after being chased down in an alley for $16 three decades ago and was in a coma from 1979 to 1981, he said.

“Was it luck that I lived or was it the grace of God?” Martin said.

A member of the Best* Church of God, Pastor Dave Shepherd, countered.

“Was it God’s grace that 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust?” Shepherd said.

Awkward silence ensued.

Martin was confused by the members of Best* Church of God, who held signs arguing that once anyone has God, they are good no matter wat.

For example, they held signs reading that terrorists, gay-bashing pastors and G.O.P pill-popping radio talk hosts were good as long as they had God. Martin was perplexed by the group.

“They don’t look like (Christians),” Martin said.

Chaparro was also confused by the protest, but more concerned with the beliefs, or non-beliefs, of atheists.

“I believe that God is the only one that created the universe,” Chaparro said. “Evolution cannot prove anything. He is the proof. Most of evolution is all fantasy.”

(Chaparro’s favorite Biblical story is the one of Samson, a mighty Israelite who wrestled a lion to death and destroyed an entire army with the jawbone of a donkey, among many other Herculian feats.

He also fell in love with a woman named Delilah, who cuts off his hair one night and destroys his strength. Samson is captured by the Phillistines, has his eyes guaged out and is made a slave. During his time as a slave, his hair grows back and inside a Phillistinian temple, he sends it crumbling down by breaking stone columns with his hands, thus killing himself and several other Phillistines in the rubble.)

In the end, the argument is a moot point, Phelps-Roper said.

“You don’t stand a chance and all this blather doesn’t help,” she said. “The Lord is coming and the destruction of this nation is imminent.”

Westboro continues cross-country crusade

The beautiful bleakness of Wyoming.

Staff report

(Indianapolis, IN)- From the plains of Omaha to the bright lights of New York City.

From the hills of Missouri to the Midwest capital of Chicago.

To Topeka, Kansas and back.

The Westboro Baptist Church has been tirelessly touring the country for Jesus this year, carrying His message of disdain and damnation for dead American soldiers, gay people and Jews.

The dedicated bunch is currently traveling to Washington, D.C. to protest two events Saturday: an event hosted by gay and lesbian Jews to celebrate the beginning and end of the annual Torah reading cycle, called Simchat Torah, and the Annual Human Rights Convention National Dinner later that night.

Double the protest double the faith!

“There will be people traveling and doing this 24/7,” said Fred Phelps Jr. recently, the son of Westboro’s founder, Fred Phelps. “I’ve been to all 50 states.”

But which state holds the most beauty in God’s eyes?

“I suppose in terms of beauty, Montana and Wyoming are certainly high up there,” Phelps said.

Speaking of Wyoming, one of the church’s most recent stops came after members learned about a play being put on by an Indianapolis high school about the 1998 murder of a University of Wyoming student. His crime?

Being gay.

About five members of the church stopped to protest at North Central High School, centered in the Crossroads of America. The home of Peyton Manning’s Colts. Home to the greatest race on Earth: The Indianapolis 500. The capital city.

And the den of Satan’s heathens, who are approximately 14 to 18 years old.

A female church member blatantly disobeying Deuteronomy 22:5: "A woman shall not wear a man's apparel... for whoever does such things is abhorrent ot the Lord your God." (Photo by the Nancy Duke Reporting Team)

About three weeks ago, North Central High School, one of the largest high schools in Indianapolis, faced off with the church’s protesters over the production of the play, called the “Laramie Project.” The play depicts the life and murder of Matthew Shepard and the issues surrounding his death once the media descended upon the town of Laramie, Wyoming, where Shepard was murdered.

Or, as the church saw it, the high schoolers were putting up Sodom and Gomorrah on stage. Cue lights. Cue sound. Cue blasphemy.

“Let’s put it this way: What you have is high school teachers who are teaching kids that God is a liar and homosexuality in their lifestyles is just ducky,” Phelps said.

Phelps pointed to Leviticus 18:22, which condemns homosexuality: “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

“(Putting on the play) is contrary to everything in the Bible, and that’s what Christ said would happen in the end of time. Our job is to preach the Bible side of it,” Phelps Jr. said.

And the Bible side, the final authority for both human belief and behavior, was in full force for Westboro. They cited scriptures not only damning the gays, but their other favorite group of people: the Jews. No one was off limits.

(However, some of the church members disregarded other scriptures despite asking everyone else to adhere to them so strictly. For example, at least one female church member was seen wearing a t-shirt and jeans, which is contrary to Deuteronomy 22:5: “A woman shall not wear a man’s apparel… for whoever does such things is abhorrent ot the Lord your God.” And the Nancy Duke Reporting Team is almost certain some of the church members also broke another one of God’s rules on fashion, cited in Deuteronomy 22:11: “You shall not wear clothes made of wool and linen woven together.” But we digress.)

One of the protester’s signs read, “Matt is still in Hell. Deal with it.”

Students from neighboring Noblesville High School came to support North Central. (Photo by the Nancy Duke Reporting Team.)

And the students did.

About 200 lined the opposite side of the street holding signs detailing God’s love for the entire Earth and all its people, regardless of race, origin, religion, sexual orientation or creed. Their message was of tolerance and love.

One openly gay senior named Hunter, who also is an actor in the play, was thrilled with the high school’s turnout and efforts. The students raised $7,000 as a counter-protest for the North Central High School Gay/ Straight Alliance and the Indiana Youth Group.

He said his message to the Westboro church would be simple.

“As many (Bible scriptures) that can bring you down, there are twice as many that can bring you up,” the student said.

And Phelps’ message to them?

“I’d say you better recognize that the God that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah is still alive and he’s coming after you,” Phelps said.

Despite that threat, the support for the play was monumental for Hunter.

“Honestly, I’m shaking. This is the best I’ve ever felt in my life,” the student said.

As thrilled as the high school students were with the turnout, Phelps looked at the protest as just another example of God’s will working through the Westboro members in their constant tour across this great country, seeking out sinners and shoving colorful signs in their faces about God hating them.

“It’s wonderful. It couldn’t get any better than this. What more in the world could you ask for if your job is to preach?” Phelps said. “What more could you ask for than this for God’s sake?”

At issue: Health care and the Third Reich

Phil Fisher passes out flyers comparing Barack Obama's health care policies to Adolf Hitler's. (Staff photo)

Staff report

(Chicago, IL)- After a town hall meeting on health care reform on the southside of Chicago, Rev. Jesse Jackson spoke with reporters, residents and union workers about why the country was in need of change.

He argued that providing all Americans with health care was a moral issue and not a political one.

He admonished the media for giving air time to protestors who perpetrate myths about President Barack Obama’s health care plan, further advancing misconceptions about the proposal, such as the claim that the plan will set up “death panels” to decide when an old person should die.

So, was the aging 67-year-old Jackson worried that a “death panel” would soon kill him?

“No,” Jackson said, slowly shaking his head.

The “death panel” phrase was elegantly coined by former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, who recenlty quit her job as governor of Alaska. The claim that Obama’s plan would require a panel of physicians to direct the elderly every five years on the best way to die has been widely proven false by health care experts and various media outlets.

The proposal calls for consultants and physicians to meet with senior citizens to discuss end-of-life issues, such as wills and hospice care, only if the patient asks for the consulation.

“I think (the death panel claim) is a painful, divisionary smoke screen. Plus, it’s not true,” Jackson said.

Well, sometimes it’s true to other people, like Phil Fisher, who represented the LaRouche Political Action Committee, headed by eight-time presidential candidate Lyndon Hermyle LaRouche Jr.

“Once you reach the age of (Medicare), you’re going to have someone come to your house and ask you how you want to die,” Fisher said.

Fisher stood outside the Sheldon Heights Christian Church, where the town hall meeting was conducted, holding a sign depicting Obama with a Hitler mustache.

“What he is doing is Un-American,” Fisher said.

What is American and what isn’t American was an overriding issue at Tuesday night’s debate, yet no resident, politician or protester clearly defined what makes a health care policy American instead of non-American. Jackson gave this analysis: “It’s a one America, one flag. Everybody is in. Nobody is out. How we treat the least fortunate is a measure of our character,” Jackson said.

For Fisher, the issue was more specifically about how Hitler drafted policies to off disfigured and disabled people to save health care costs, and how, Obama would inevitably do the same.

Even Jesus got involved in the debate over health insurance. (Staff photo)

“The very first act that (Hitler) did was going after people who were disfigured, had a physical disfirgurement, people who were paraplegic, quadriplegic, people who had chronic illnesses,” Fisher said.

Jackson’s son Jesse Jackson Jr., (D-Ill.), the congressman from the Second District, hosted the town hall meeting to inform residents of the 34th ward about the proposal and how it affected them, including coverage subsidies, the elimination of pre-existing conditions and how they can keep their current plans if they chose to. Inside the church, the meeting was well attended and orderly, which was in juxtaposition to the nationwide-trend of riotous debates, gun-toting protestors and shouting matches.

But outside, African American residents from the 34th Ward argued passionately with Fisher, who is also an African American.

Now, even the blacks are fighting each other.

Residents tried to grab the waste-high sign of Obama with a mustache out of Fisher’s hands and tear it apart.

“Take it away from our neighborhood,” one resident said as she tried to peel the sign away.

Fisher yelled at them for being “Un-American.” The residents yelled back at Fisher for disrespecting his heritage with the sign.

“Where is your momma and daddy? Is that how they raised you? They would be ashamed of you if they saw you with this,” one female resident shouted at Fisher.

Like rubber, Fisher was glue.

“No real American would be acting this way and no real American would support this!” Fisher said.

A retired history teacher then told Fisher that he needed Jesus.

“I can’t believe that they talked you into doing this, an African American. You didn’t come up with this. You’re not smart enough,” the teacher said.

Fisher’s response: “Obama shouldn’t be such a Nazi.”

The LaRouche group claims that Obama’s plan, like Hitler’s, would eventually lead to the killing of chronically ill and elderly to cut down on health care costs. Fisher continually compared Adolf Hitler, a man responsible for the organized murders of six million Jews, to Barack Obama, whose greatest offense so far has been a questionable fist bump with his wife, Michelle, during the campaign season. Fisher also furthered the claim that panels of physicians would direct the elderly to kill themselves.

“Even discussing the idea of taking Ezekiel Emmanuel’s (the brother of Rahm Emmanuel) policy of euthanasia, physician-assisted suicides (is Un-American),” Fisher said.

And where does the health care plan list such heartless, cold steps to eliminate the elderly through euthanasia?

“I can’t remember exactly what page it is on,” Fisher said.

Rev. Jesse Jackson

Pullout: Q & A session
Rev. Jesse Jackson took a few moments to answer some questions about health care reform Tuesday evening. The Nancy Duke Reporting team asked general questions before finding out what everyone wants to know: will a death panel kill Jackson to cut down on health insurance costs?
Q: What is an American and non-American health plan?
JJ: It’s a one America, one flag. Everybody is in. Nobody is out. How we treat the least fortunate is a measure of our character. We’re helping the poor, but not just the poor. We’re helping those who are not poor but lost their jobs and are desparate today. People choose between their house, health care, jobs and food and child and school. That’s a predicament. Health care is a rising cost in that. It should be addressed and reduced.
Q: How do you fight all the misinformation out there?
JJ: We fought to end slavery. There were those that thought slavery was a divine right and that if you ended slavery, you would change the character of America. If women had the right to vote, that would destory America’s morals. If workers had the right to organize and have labor unions, that would undermine America’s freedoms. So, every time there is really change, there has always been these hard core arguments. People are even against the worker’s right to have a vacation.
Q: Don’t you think it will take a little bit longer (to pass)? Don’t you think it won’t happen this quick?
JJ: You can’t win the fight unless you fight it. We’ve never lost a fight when we fought it and never won one unless we fought it.
Q: If (Obama) fails this year…
JJ: (interrupting) It’s not him failing. If America, our character, and our life options are at stake. It’s not just the president’s ratings, it’s America’s life options. America’s public health care options are at stake. The stakes are ‘we the people.’
Q: As you are getting older, are you worried that a death panel might decide when you live or die?
JJ: No. I think that is a painful divisionary smoke screen. Plus, it’s not true

Q & A Session: Phil Fisher
The Nancy Duke Reporting team took time to speak with LaRouche Political Action Committee member Phil Fisher about why President Barack Obama is creating Nazi policies. Fisher spoke about what an American policy is and an Un-American policy is. A credit system is American. A monetary system is not.
Nancy Duke: How does a non-credit system compare to Nazi Germany, where Hitler’s proposal was to basically kill everyone who didn’t have blonde hair and blue eyes.
Phil Fisher: That wasn’t the proposal.
ND: But that’s what he wanted to do.
PF: Well that’s what he ended up doing later on. The very first act that he did was going after people who were disfigured, had a physical disfigurement, people who were paraplegic, quadriplegic, people who had chronic illnesses. If you read through the first 60 pages (of Obama’s proposal), it goes through discussing the fact that people who are below the age of 50 haven’t actually massed a wealth of investment and those who are above the age of 64 or 65, or basically in their 60s, have reached a point where you don’t invest in them, so you pull back medical benefits and pull back from investing in their health.
ND: How does that equate to killing disfigured, paraplegic and mentally ill people?
PF: What happens when you have someone who has cerebral palsy, cancer, or ill, someone who needs a lot of investment or care, they’re talking about pulling back treatment and encouraging physicians and putting the pressure on them about killing their lives.
ND: Where does that say that in the bill, where does it say that physicians should push all of their patients to kill themselves?
PF: This is what they’re doing right now before it’s even put into act.
ND: Just explain to me how (Obama) compares to Hitler who killed 6 million Jews in concentration camps by setting them on fire, killing them with gas chambers…
PF: (interrupting) Well, how did Hitler get there?
ND: So, you think this will be an end result for Obama? Some type of concentration camp/ mass murder situation? National health care is the first step in being like Hitler and a few steps down the road, you’re killing 6 million people? Is that the line of thinking?
PF: That’s not so much the line of thinking, but if you look into what Hitler did, first of all, Hitler was only a necessity of certain banking establishments who basically picked him.
ND: What do we need to do to be a Fascist country? What else do we need to strike out?
PF: We’re already taking non-American policies by adopting and investing and taking care of banking establishments before taking care of the people. There’s no actual investments into creating jobs and no investments into high-end technological leaps.
ND: You’re saying Un-American and American…
PF: What I’m saying is the question of Hamilton economics or the idea of Lincoln, where you invest into the human creative process, where you say you’re going to push for the higher yields of technological advancements.
(At this point, Fisher started speaking about nuclear investments and a natural water crisis. Uninterested, Duke told him she had to go wash her hair.)

Commentary: Where have all the adjectives gone?

By Nancy Duke

In my near century of work as a newspaper reporter, I have covered the Great Depression and more than a dozen United States recessions. When I started penning articles for the Idaho Times in 1912, one of my first assignments was to chronicle the declining industrial activity and subsequent deflation of the great Midwest.

If I recall, I described the death of the industrial revolution like a sputtering Model T, trying in vain to muster one more mile out of its drying gas tank, while it sat alone and decrepit on a vacant dirt road, smoke billowing around it.

I wrote several other Earth-moving articles as I covered the post World War I and II recessions and the Great Depression during my career as a reporter. Those were tough times. (I remember I had to take notes on pieces of potato sacks when my employer at the time ran out of miscellaneous funds.)

But never have I been so concerned with this great nation than I am now. Why, you may ask?

Because journalists are running out of ways to describe the dwindling, sour, tanking, hurting and downtrodden economy.

The recession is a major concern for Americans, who are working paycheck-to-paycheck and altering their lifestyles to pay the next bill and feed their children. They are hard workers who have been laid off. They have masters degrees but can’t find a job. They are swallowing their pride and visiting food pantries to get them through the next month. They don’t know where the next meal will come from. But local and national print, radio and television journalists face a similar crisis:

They are running out of adjectives.

I recently visited some dedicated journalists in Indiana over the weekend to discuss the epidemic.

“I just did a package on businesses turning to eBay to sell miscellaneous items they don’t need anymore for a little extra revenue. I used the terms ‘challenging economy’ in the lede, and ‘tough economy’ at the end, even though I had already used the exact same two phrases just days before in a different package. I felt pathetic,” Channel 12-QTHR investigative reporter Bob Seegall said. “I couldn’t show my face around the studio for three days.”

Often, I found, journalists discover that their stories about the economy repeat the same adjectives as their co-workers, stirring frustrations in the newsroom. Indianapolis Daily News education reporter, Andrew Rambiss, recently had a similar dust up with state government reporter Mary Beth Cliver when he found both were using the term “reeling economy” in the ledes of stories set to run the same day.

“Of the hundreds of stories I had written about the economy, I don’t think I had ever used ‘reeling,’ so I felt really good about it. But then I go into our directory and see Cliver turned the same phrase for her story about the state budget… Bitch,”
Rambiss said. “It nearly ripped the newsroom in two.”

Other news reporters are reaching a breaking point as they struggle to explain the severity of the recession. Channel 8-DISH TV anchor Eric Malvorson was recently spotted agonizing over his lead story about how the economy is affecting food pantries, which are running low on food, just minutes before the 6 p.m. newscast.
He continually muttered adjectives under his breath, such as “awful economy” “bad economy” and “really stupid economy,” before sinking his face into his hands, letting out a quiet sob and crumbling his copy between his hands.

Malvorson had to walk to the makeup room to calm down, where he gently applied foundation to his cheeks, looked in the mirror and let out another quiet whimper before telling himself, “Just go with downtrodden, Eric.”

Area journalists have run the gamut on adjectives to describe the recession, including sour, dour, dwindling, tanking, reeling, crashing, diving, hurting, unyielding, downtrodden and floundering, but are now coming up dry. Many of just resorted to using the phrase, “this economy.”

“I used a thesaurus the first time in a long time the other day just to come up with another term for ‘really shitty.’ All I could find were words that we have already used. I don’t know how much longer this recession is going to last, but I don’t think we journalists can take it much longer. It’s absolutely agonizing for us,” Franklin Daily Gazette reporter Judy Smalls said. “We are dying over here.”

As my driver, Theodore, drove me back to Chicago in my 1930 Buick Eight, I couldn’t help but ponder who the recession would get the best of first: journalists or real people?

UPDATE: More Westboro coverage

Crazed lady.

Editor’s note: The fine folks at Best* Church of God linked Mrs. Duke’s story on the Westboro protest in the church’s coverage of the event here. Link is at the bottom.

Don’t forget to follow Nancy on Twitter: Click here!

Kansas church group protests Jews in Chicago

Shirley Phelps-Roper of Westboro Baptist Church protests in downtown Chicago Monday night. (Photo by Nancy Duke)

Staff report

(Chicago, IL)- Members from an outspoken Kansas church protested a fundraiser hosted by comedian Don Rickles in downtown Chicago Monday night.

The members from Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka didn’t crowd the corner of Congress Parkway and Wabash Avenue by the Auditorium Theatre to dispute Rickles style as an insult comedian.

Instead, their songs and protest signs were aimed at another group: Jews.

“The reason we are here is that we are targeting, you might say, Jews,” said Shirley Phelps-Roper, who is the eldest daughter Fred Phelps, the church’s founder and minister.

Phelps-Roper was joined by her husband, Brent Roper, who held “America is Doomed” and “Bloody Obama” signs as motorists drove by during rush hour. One of the couple’s 11 children also protested with his parents, as well as another young church member and Phelps-Roper’s nephew, Jacob Phelps.

The Westboro church is infamously known for protesting soldiers’ funerals and marketing the term, “God hates fags.” Church members also believe the wars in the Middle East and dwindling global economy is God’s way of telling everyone that He hates America.

Jacob Phelps held up a sign reading, “The Jews Killed Jesus.”

Brent Roper speaks words of wisdom to one of his 11 children during the protest. (Photo by Nancy Duke)

The protesters’ message was two-fold: The Jews have sinned against Christ, and numerous events predicted by prophets in the Bible, including what they believe as the rise of President Barack Obama as the Anti-Christ, spelled the End of Times and subsequently, and fortunately for the Phelps family, the end of the Jews.

The demonstration was merely a representation of what the Puritans believed hundreds of years ago, standards directed by literal interpretations of the Old Testament, which have, unfortunately, been replaced by standards more suited toward Sodom and Gomorrah, Roper said. Perhaps the Westboro church represents the modern-day Puritans?

“In some ways, that might be true,” Roper said.

They chose to protest at the Auditorium Theatre because Rickles was hosting a fundraiser for the Jewish United Fund-Israel Emergency Fund at $40 a head.

“Don Rickles is a filthy-talking pervert. He’s the face of doomed Israel,” Phelps-Roper said.

Jacob Phelps, 25, spoke of the Book of Revelation, which tells of 144,000 Jews (12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel), who will be chosen by God and saved from damnation. The remaining Jews, approximately 13.2 million currently, will be sent to burn for eternity in the Fiery Lake.

“All Jews deserve Hell, except for the ones he calls out,” Jacob Phelps said. “God picked (Jews) to be his people, to have higher standards than all others. They didn’t. They killed their Christ. They killed their savior.”

The group’s issue isn’t with the money Jews make or the size of their noses (“That’s the way God made them,” Jacob Phelps said), but with how they had turned their backs against their God, thus ruining an otherwise fantastic country, not including the gays. The punishment will start with Obama leading a march on Jerusalem and the slaughtering of Jews soon, Phelps-Roper said.

“I don’t know exactly how it’s going to look, but it’s going to happen,” Phelps-Roper said.

The wrath the Jews will face at the End of Times, likely in this generation or next, will make the Holocaust seem minuscule, Phelps-Roper said.

“It’s going to make it look like a tea party,” she said.

For Brent Roper and his wife, the protest was more than warning the Jews of their imminent fate. It was a way of teaching their children lessons of God’s true message: Obey him and the 10 Commandments and hate Jews and fags.

“It’s for their sake,” the mother said.

The protesters, however, were outnumbered by another group mocking the Kansas church. Satirical group, Best* Church of God, held signs and shouted out other offenses against God: humans, shrimp, yeast, figs and Trader Joe’s, much to the chagrin of the Kansas group.

One member reminded Roper that God hates figs, which was a take on the story where Jesus curses a fig tree in the Book of Mark.

Roper turned the comment into a learning opportunity for his son. The father leaned down to his young son and said, “God does hate figs. Remember Jeremiah 44?”

EXTRA: Q & A Session
Reporter Nancy Duke took time to interview Jacob Phelps, 25, from Westboro Baptist Church, as he protested Jews Monday night outside the Auditorium Theatre in Chicago. Phelps, a lifetime member of the Topeka, Kansas church, started protesting across the country when he was seven. He is a grandson of the church’s minister and founding member, Fred Phelps. Here is a sampling of a question and answer session with Phelps. Phelps’ answers are paraphrased unless otherwise noted.

Jacob Phelps, grandson of Fred Phelps, protesting. (Photo by Nancy Duke)

Nancy Duke: Why are you here? What is your purpose?
Jacob Phelps: “Every son and daughter of Adam has the duty to obey their God… We are here to show this generation their transgressions.”
ND: What group is more dangerous–the gays or the Jews?
JP: Neither. Gays can’t repent by definition, because they can’t change their mind about being gay. “God picked (Jews) to be his people, to have higher standards than all others. They didn’t. They killed their Christ. They killed their savior.”
ND: What are you here to tell the Jews then?
JP: At the end of days, 144,000 Jews will be chosen and repent of their sins. The rest will burn in Hell. “If there are any Jews out there, they’re going to hear this message and repent.”
ND: Do you hate the Jews because they make so much money?
JP: “No, no. I don’t care about that. What I care about is they’re not giving the glory to God (about making so much money). And they’re making so much money off the Holocaust, and they don’t give the glory to God for that.”
ND: So, God gave them the Holocaust as a favor to make money?
JP: “Not as a favor, but I think He did it to call them out.”
(Phelps then went on to talk about how the Holocaust can never compare to the Babylonian Captivity, which was a massive exile of Jews from the Kingdom of Judah to Babylon before Jesus walked the Earth.)
JP: “At the end of times, all the (Jewish) women will be raped and the men and babies killed off. But that’s after America is destroyed mind you.”
ND: Then that would be after Obama’s term, right?
JP: Obama will be harmed in some way, almost put to death, but he will miraculously come back to life. He will get power from 10 kingdoms and wage war against Israel. “It’s going to be very hard on those Jews.”
ND: Can you explain to me again why gays can’t repent by definition?
JP: “OK, in order to repent, you have to change your mind. If a homosexual repents and continues to be a homosexual, he can’t repent.”
ND: So gays can never change or stop being gay?
JP: “No, there are plenty of ways. Jesus Christ said that if you’re offended by your right eye, pluck it out.”
ND: So, they should pluck out their right eye?
JP: “No. (Pauses and makes a downward motion with his hand over his mid section, making a cutting noise.) Cut it off.”
ND: They should cut their dicks off?
JP: “If you want to go to Heaven, and can’t stop (being gay), I would do that.

AT A GLANCE: Westboro Baptist Church

What: Westboro Baptist Church (Topeka, Kansas) is headed by minister Fred Phelps, who started the independent church in 1955. The church believes in everything the Old Testament says in a very literal sense.
What they protest: Fags, Jews, soldiers, America
How to learn more: For more information, visit the church’s Web site: godhatesfags.com

Copyright Nancy Duke Enterprises